Ecole Polytechnique

[StripperLover]

My sympathy goes out to the family & loved ones of those whose lives were taken from them in a senseless act of violence.

All acts of violence are sensless !!

[Doc Holliday]

Agreed on all counts. I happened to be in Montreal when this tragedy occurred. I was mostly obsessed with strippers back then, not having yet sampled 'the hobby'. As i grow older, the level of sadness that i feel whenever the media recalls this sad story is considerable and increases year after year. Is it because i spend more and more time in Mtl and i now nearly consider it my home? Who knows....but let's hope that history doesn't repeat itself for once.

Unfortunately, there are many Marc Lepines out there that are being produced by this society of ours.

[StripperLover]

Doc,

It may also be because as we age we see & understand better, the fragility of life & how quick our lives really are in the greater scheme of things.

AMEN, to history not repeating itself !!!

[CelineBisous]

December 6th 1989 was truly a very sad day for alot of families. May they find comfort and strenght in there memories.

Celine xoxo

[StripperLover]

Reading some people's comments or questions, without their forethought of how these things were & how society was at the time of this horrific incident is beyond comprehension . The violent act occurred before Columbine or any other well publicized acts of violence.Prior to such insanity, people did not think that such things could happen so being prepared & consequently expecting them to react in any manner, other than shock, that befitted acts of violence at that time, is not reasonable. The other acts of violence only occurred decades later & that is unfortunately when & only when people's consciousness levels become raised. Expecting this to be so before, is also not reasonable.

Montreal today, does not have many so called security guards & 15 yrs ago, was a joke! to say the least.

[StripperLover]

I fail to understand why it is that so many out there, either don't understand or fail to see that NO other modern western industrialized country, other than the US, permits and/or severly restricts their citizenry to possess or own firearms & all those countries have a much lower homicide rates than the US. Do they not see that there must be some sort of correlation there. If they don't see that there is a correlation, than what else is the cause of the vastly higher homicide rate % in the US. Are they more advanced in that regard & if that is advancement then I guess Canada, for example, is primitive. Or is it that the NRA lobby group is selling a pack of bs, so that they can continue to sell weapons.

Below is a list of the richest nations & their relating Homicide rates per 100K & the link to the article that this was taken from.

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.


http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

[NYME]

SL,
You just bought into one side of the argument between the pro gun and con gun groups.

Please check what you quoted

i.e. You posted gun related deaths

Of course gun related deaths will be less where people are not allowed to own guns.


I will quote this article:
"Gun death" statistics are frequently cited, in the manner above, to strongly suggest that guns are the cause behind the high violent death rate in the U.S. As in the case of the Los Angeles Times article, no mention is made that over half of those violent deaths are suicides. The CNN article mentions gun homicides and gun suicides, but fails to show us the total violent death rate of other countries, not just gun deaths. For example, in Japan, where gun ownership is rare, its total suicide rate is higher than our total suicide rate. "
and link
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

There is a nice table listing total violent death rates gun homicide, gun suicide, total suicide etc. May open your eyes.

another link looking at this issue:
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

by the way I own no guns. It makes no difference to me. I consider myself neutral. I just have fun watching the two sides twist things to thier point of view no matter how stupid.

[StripperLover]

NYME,

You're right but the following chart illustrates the homicide rates by country with the leading way out in front with 9 per 100K & the next closest is Australia with 2.25 per 100K.

All this talk on about the various calibers, etc, well I'm proud to say that I don't know the difference between calibers & hope that I never will nor the various rifle types as well.


Homicide Chart by Country (http://phps.dhs.co.la.ca.us/ivpp/subjects/intentional/Homicide/homintl97.pdf)

[NYME]

The charts you find in the links I posted were for 1993 and 1999. The homicide rates then were about 5.5. So most likely what you posted was a high year (picked by gun control fanatics) and the links I posted were low years (picked by gun lovers).

You know people fear what they don't know.

As for what is wrong in the US. Look to the entertainment industry. What do they censor? A little bit of skin is so bad (Jackson in Superbowl -breast) but violence is ok. Movies and TV programs censor out anything the least bit sexual but let violence pass. So what message does that send?

So I do not think the problem is guns. I think the problem is the message sent to our kids by the media.

[StripperLover]

NYME,

Why is the US all alone with respect to guns & their freedoms to have them ? Why is the US the most violent country (in the listed group) amongst it's own citizens.
The second amendment is the most bastardized or ill quoted phrase not in it's entirety.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Since when is there a well regulated or any militia for that matter in the US ?

These things were written 200+ yrs ago & they don't apply in their entirety now.

[StripperLover]

versace,

Go to the following, for the party thread ;

http://www.merc.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2246#post2246

[Tony]

Nobody really leaves this world until their memory fades away. A few years later the memory still lives on. Not sure how many ladies out there have earned one of those engineering rings made from steel from the Quebec City bridge that collapsed last century. Please take a look at your ring, picture what dreams are made from, remind yourself what you went through to get it and remind yourself about responsibilities and duty.

[Techman]

It was a tragedy that hopefully will never be repeated in our or anyone else's lifetime. I have always wondered if anyone ever did a follow up on the male students who were ordered out of the classroom only to later realize that their fellow female students and friends were senselessly slaughtered. They may have survived the massacre but they were also victims of it. What ever became of them?

[Tony]

There is a story of one guy who killed himself. Boyfriend of one of the girls in the classroom who as also present at that time in the classroom. Thought the entire thing was a joke. I think if you look at old news bulletins you will find out more details. I was at Concordia U at that time and even though we were not even close to the Ecole's location, that snowy night was a night I will never forget. Hanging out at the Engineering & Computer Science Students Association (ECA) watching CFCF was a bit frightening that night. A few years later same place same students association we were hanging out with the SWAT team. Oh well… what really bothers me is that 2 billion dollars later spent in a stupid gun registry system, Jane and Fintch in TO is just like the wild west, nothing has changed. Not only blacks and asians (oh excuse me!) still carry hand guns around Toronto, imported from the US, but at the same time anyone with a mental handicap (visible or not) can still legally go get a gun, no business rules in the 2-tier registration system to prevent that from happening.

By the way, if you folks in Ottawa were wondering why Canadian flags fly half mast today outside government buildings, this is why. It is almost like once a year we commemorate the Liberal's stupidity, arrogance and "take the money and run" attitude, for a government program that was budgeted for $4 million to cost $2 billion :eek:

[TheFan]

More detail about this incident please. I have not heard of it.

Thanks.

[Tony]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051206/montreal_massacre_051206/20051206?hub=Canada

[danleo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecole_Polytechnique_Massacre

[TheFan]

Very sad since I graduated in 1989 with an engineering degree. A lot of the girls that graduated with me work for Fortune 500 cos and Nasa.

[EagerBeaver]

I have read a number of news accounts of this event and I am still lacking in understanding as to how Lepine could have killed that many people without having been stopped and subdued. I have raised this question before and I still don't have a satisfying answer.

[Tony]

EB, no offence but google McDonald's massacre (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-47,GGLG:en&q=mcdonalds+massacre&spell=1), find the answer to that and then come back and ask all the questions you want.

[mtl.male]

I have read a number of news accounts of this event and I am still lacking in understanding as to how Lepine could have killed that many people without having been stopped and subdued. I have raised this question before and I still don't have a satisfying answer.

I don't know either. In the USA, someone with a weapon would have stopped him. Here in Canada, it's only easy for criminals to purchase and carry weapons.

"M. Lepine was born Gamil Gharbi, the son of an Algerian Muslim wife-beater, whose brutalized spouse told the court at their divorce hearing that her husband "had a total disdain for women and believed they were intended only to serve men." At 18, young Gamil took his mother's maiden name. The Gazette in Montreal mentioned this in its immediate reports of the massacre. The name "Gamil Gharbi" has not sullied its pages in the 12 years since."

from http://www.steynonline.com/index2.cfm?edit_id=29

[CMA]

Hello EB,

To put a little light to your question maybe I could give my 2 cents. When the events took place, it was late in the afernoon, at the time that daily classes were finishing and the night classes students were coming in so there was a lot of people coming in and out of the ''Polytechnique''. I guess that when it appenned, with all the in and out, everybody got cought by surprise and, after the first shock, when you see a guy walking with a semi automatic weapon fireing, you just lay down on the floor and pray. At that time, I was a night class student at the old École des Hautes Études Commerciales pavillion who was located just beside the ''Polytechnique'' and I had a class that night. When I arrived after my working day at the parking lot, who was for both pavillions, I couldn't get in because I arrived there in the same time as the SWAT team and the ambulances. Even there, I didn't know what it was going on. I was asking people who were running everywhere but nobody know exactly what was going on. Some were telling me that an accident appenned in a lab class, other said that there was a bomb. I only found out of the real situation by listening the news on the radio. Every time that I pass by, I always remember that night.

CMA

[EagerBeaver]

In the USA, someone with a weapon would have stopped him.

Mtl.Male,

I believe you are correct. In fact, there was a similar incident a few years back (I believe about 5-7 years ago) at a law school in Virginia where a law student upset with his grades started randomly shooting at people. A couple of other students went to their cars, got their guns and immediately subdued the maniacal student. I can't recall if they shot him or fired shots at him, but they did jump him and subdue him before there was a catastrophic loss of life.

As far as the 1966 incident involving Whitman at the University of Texas, he was firing from the top of a tall tower on campus and nobody could get to him to subdue him.

CMA,

Thanks for sharing your perspective. What I do not understand specifically with regard to the Lepine incident is that the males were ordered to leave the classroom before any shooting began, and it just seemed to me that there was time for someone to have reacted and done something to subdue this maniac. I would like to hear the perspective of one of the males ordered out of the classroom.

[CMA]

What I do not understand specifically with regard to the Lepine incident is that the males were ordered to leave the classroom before any shooting began, and it just seemed to me that there was time for someone to have reacted and done something to subdue this maniac

EB,

I don't remember if the events took place in one classroom or two or if Lepine had time to walk around before the shooting but, if it appenned in one classroom immediatly after he asked all the males to leave, it doesn't give much time to get organize or to react, specially when he is yelling and pointing a machine gun at you. Finally, after killing all those 14 women, he shot himself. One thing that I'm not shure is how much time all the events took. Maybe there was not enough time for the people to react.

As you said, it would be very intersting to ear the story from one of the guys who has been asked to leave the classroom.

[orallover]

I don't know either. In the USA, someone with a weapon would have stopped him. Here in Canada, it's only easy for criminals to purchase and carry weapons.

Are you saying then letting people to own their guns in USA is better way ? :huhwhat: *just asking*

[mtl.male]

Are you saying then letting people to own their guns in USA is better way ? :huhwhat: *just asking*

Yes. For many reasons..

1) Restrictions on guns only affects law-abiding citizens. Criminals have no problem finding guns at any time.

2) People are more polite.

3) How else can you defend yourself & your property?

4) The number of people killed by legal guns is very small. In fact, if your kid wants to visit a friend, the risk of death by shooting is much less than drowning. If their friend has a pool, don't let them go!

5) Our gun registry is up to 2 BILLION dollars... and it still doesn't work.

[Tony]

The latest is that the Liberals (election promises) will ban all registered handguns unless it is a collector's work. C'mon... when was the last time you saw a guy down Finch Av. in TO with a firearms acquisition certificate walking around shooting people? This is just an opportunity to handle a $1 million change request to a fucked up fat-application-client that has never seen better days. Get those Liberals out of here, please, Ottawa begins to smell bad.

Dear mister PM: Cancel the firearms registry program and give the money to the cops, let them do their job so that we won't see any other 4 year olds getting shot on a bus at Scarborough (yeah we know you read this you rotten spoiled daddy’s-money freak).

[Mango]

Those of us who were around academia back then, can't forget. Will never forget. http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=1042167

[General Gonad]

Scary thought to have someone barge in a class room and murder students at will. I was with Peyton of CF the day of the Dawson College massacre.

We should never forget that there are many insane people out there.

GG

[Naughtylady]

I was a Concordia student at the time... and no, I can never forget... nor do I want to. Those young women deserve to be remembered.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady